Muddy Waters

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Posts by Muddy Waters

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  184

  A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .

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  cedars.

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  Muddy Waters

  *marking*
  
  This is super-creepy. It boggles my mind now that I'm "free" to see the depths of the organization-worship and elevation of man (who are supposed to be servants) and the way they kick Jesus to the curb!
  
  How could I not see this for so long..... Is the org becoming more "org-oriented" than usual or am I finally just seeing it for what it is??
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  51

  April 15, 2013 Watchtower - p. 22-26: Organization-Obsessed Much???

  by sd-7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there's a study article "make sure of the more important things", and in no uncertain terms the article makes clear that "jehovah's organization" is the most important thing.

  the term "organization" or "jehovah's organization" is used a whopping 24 times in the article, including a subheading titled: "follow the example of jehovah's organization".

  i thought organizations were entities, but that sort of subheading makes it seem like the organization is one giant person whose example we can follow.

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  Muddy Waters

  Wow. Marking.
  I cannot believe the glorification of the organization. Pretty soon it'll just be the "Big O". I could see how some people could worship that....
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  15

  Is there one scripture you like to show JWs and why ?

  by Pterist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  2 corinthians 4:4. the wbts like to use 2 corinthians 4:4 frequently.

  however, they invariably never complete the section of verse 4, which states "lest they see the radiance of the glorious gospel of christ" .. i ask them what does this mean to them personally ?, my motivation is to draw their attention to exactly what is been hidden by the god of this system of things.

  the answer is in verse 6 and 7 "yahweh who said let the light shine out of darkness, has also made the light shine in our hearts to radiate and to make known the glory of god as it shines in the face of christ, however we carry this treasure in vessels of clay, so that this all surpassing power may not be seen as ours, but as gods"!

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  Muddy Waters

  The verse at Psalms 146:4, which says: "Do not put your trust in earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs..."
  
  Guess the JWs believe this applies to everybody except the GB.
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  50

  Need advice from a female

  by CADSkin in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  long story short.

  ive been married for 18 years to my beautiful wife.

  when i was younger i had a lot of attention due to my looks which has always made me extremely uncomfortable.

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  Muddy Waters

  Thankfully, I've overcome most of my jealousy and insecurity issues, but when I was first married (and a lot younger) I was very jealous.

  I couldn't stand anybody noticing or speaking to my husband. It might have been totally innocent, but my own insecurities would not allow him to have any social enjoyment with the opposite sex. It was hell for both of us.

  It took interior work and knowledge, and gaining life experience and coming to appreciate and value myself more to help me cope with these negative feelings about myself.

  There are a lot of overweight women who do not have these insecurities about their mate talking with other women. So it isn't just a weight issue. There are more factors involved, including her own feelings or worth, value and esteem. You can't manufacture them, it comes from within.

  You can compliment her, show her affection, do wonderful and kind things for her, but until or unless she really BELIEVES you mean it, it may be hard for her to accept that you really truly love her. So it can be frustrating.

  She needs patience and understanding from you. She needs to do things which increase her confidence and her awareness and appreciation of her abilities, including her uniqueness as a person. She needs to feel within that she has worth and value.

  What also helped me was making diet changes (a lot of foods can contribute to mental depression and anxieties). Cutting out processed foods, sodas, bread, and increasing fruits and vegetables can be really helpful.
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  36

  Rant #77

  by 00DAD in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't actually my 77th rant.

  i've completely lost track of all my rants.

  i'm quite sure i'm way passed 77 by now.

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  Muddy Waters

  00Dad -- your post(s) break my heart…. I am so sad and frustrated with you at having to go through being shunned by your own children.

  To think that once upon a time I used to be as blind and believed everything the GB/FDS/WTS ever said. :(

  One can only hope that your children will eventually come to their senses!

  It sounds like you're trying to remain calm and reasonable, and that is a very good thing. If they see you become angry at their "stand", it may only serve to alienate them further and convince them even more in their mind that "you have been over-reached by Satan…" *ugh*, I know. :(

  It seems that JWs as a whole are very frightened of anger. At all the meetings, assemblies, conventions, etc., everyone is quiet, organized, directed, shunted here and there, all speaking in agreement, all smiling, all friendly, all nice. And there's a lot of comfort in that. I used to find it comforting. It is nice having peace and orderliness… a sense of belonging, a feeling that you really do have a "world-wide brotherhood". So there's a LOT to contend with when dealing with any JW when it comes to leaving that nice, secure place.

  But the MENTAL BLINDNESS is so frustrating! It's almost impenetrable.

  May I share an experience…? It shames me to this day. :(

  Once upon a time, when I was a zealous dubbie, full of self-righteousness (only I didn't recognize it as such of course!), zeal, the whole and total indoctrinated JW-ishness way of being -- there was a time when people delivered things like bread and milk to your home. My "bread-man" just happened to be a JW, who had gotten himself DF'd.

  But for the longest time, I did not know this. So I was always polite to him, asking about his day, and he was always friendly and good to our family. He would even give us discounts on older bread and do other many nice things for us. Then one day in field-service, someone mentioned that our bread-man was DF'd.

  I was shocked! It seemed like he suddenly grew horns on his head. Such a "nice" person couldn't really be nice! He must have some hidden agenda somewhere, he must surely be lurking in some way to destroy my faith at any moment. I knew immediately that I must tell him never to come to our home again, even if our contact was only business. (I was a very strict dubbie… it makes me physically ill to remember this now…. :(

  I will never forget what happened. He came to our door, as usual, on his weekly bread-delivery route. He was his usual, friendly smiling self. I was my super-strict, frowning, self-righteous, critical, judgmental JW self. --Yes, this is hard to write. :(

  I waited until I'd gotten our bread delivery and paid him. Then I said, "Well, I guess this will be our last bread delivery."

  He looked surprised and asked, "Oh, are you moving?"

  And I puffed up with full JW righteousness and said my stupid, cruel, heartless spiel. "No, but we're Jehovah's Witnesses, and we can't have any dealings with you henceforth." Something stupid and brainless like that. Chills me now to think I spoke to this kind man that way.

  But I remember HIS REACTION, and in my JW mind, it confirmed all the worst I'd ever heard about DF'd people and apostate people. He looked at first so shocked and hurt, then anger came over his face. He actually stumbled as he turned in his hurry to leave (no doubt to stop himself from saying something horrid to me). He sort of crashed his way into his bread truck and I could tell he was furious and that I'd hurt him.

  At the time, did I feel remorse? Did I run to tell him, "I'm so sorry, please forgive me…" Oh no, of course not. That would be weakness. That would be acting like a decent, loving, compassionate human being. I actually felt a SELF-RIGHTEOUS piety, like I had totally done the right thing in being "faithful" to my God. His anger only confirmed to me that he was indeed, a terrible person deep inside. His friendliness was only a facade.

  So, 00dad, you surely don't deserve to be treated the way your children are treating you. But they are lost to the WT right now…. things that helped me finally wake up was the society's own duplicity, lies, hypocrisy, doctrine changes, and yes, cruelty to DF'd persons. I hope your children come to their proper senses and will eventually see through the mean, unloving, and extreme teachings of the WTS. Hang in there.... keep hoping.... don't let it eat you up too much...
  
  I sure wish there was an easy way to "turn on the light!" for them.
  
  Love, Muddy
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  22

  For JWs: Bible Verses Contradict Watchtower

  by ABibleStudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you ever wanted to have a witty comeback for a jw's thought stopping platitude or slogun, but couldn't think of one to plant a seed of doubt in a jw?

  please share your witty comebacks and a bible verse(s) that contradicts watchtower thought stopping platitudes and slogans.. here are a couple of mine.. 1) watchtower thougnt-stopping platitude - "where else will we go?".

  response - "don't you mean to whom?

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  Muddy Waters

  Marking, thank you! :)
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  32

  Who is the Real faithful and discreet slave?

  by mtwtf in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  who is the real faithful and discreet slave?

  he ceases to exist once the meeting is over;.

  he ceases to exist once the meeting is over;.

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  Muddy Waters

  I also don't understand the WTS's dishonesty regarding their "new light" about the FDS class. Because if the FDS=GB and was appointed in 1919, as they now claim, how can this be when the GB didn't even come into existence until the mid-70's??!!??!!?????????
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  38

  After A Day In Field Service, Did You Get Euphoric Or A Spiritual High?

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this might sound silly but field service did provide a strange type of good feelings after i was done.

  i called this the "halo-effect" because i felt so "righteous, obedient and good" for taking the weirdos or "the friends" in my station wagon.

  vans and station wagon owners in the congregations often get used hard, pile up seven whacks and your off!

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  Muddy Waters

  "Look in the trunk of the average JW's car and its got piles of months old mags that they are afraid to throw out. At least thats how it was when I was still going in service."

  Ha! You should see my basement! I've still got boxes and boxes of stupid old magazines & literature, yellowing and dusting! But naturally I thought I was the "only one" with these secret piles of guilt!
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  38

  After A Day In Field Service, Did You Get Euphoric Or A Spiritual High?

  by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this might sound silly but field service did provide a strange type of good feelings after i was done.

  i called this the "halo-effect" because i felt so "righteous, obedient and good" for taking the weirdos or "the friends" in my station wagon.

  vans and station wagon owners in the congregations often get used hard, pile up seven whacks and your off!

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  Muddy Waters

  At first, I really thought I was doing "the Lord's work!" Used to exclaim to everybody at the hall how wonderful it was, that it was "just like being a disciple!"

  I really thought and believed that Jesus' disciples actually did this kind of door-to-door thing. *ugh*

  But after things went on, and you're knocking on empty house after empty house (and walking past people on the street!! What's up with that?? I could never understand how so many JWs could do that... I was one of those super-zealous, annoying JWs who wanted to talk to everybody and who leapt out of the car to talk to somebody if they were walking on the sidewalk toward us.

  I was in field service for a WHOLE YEAR before I saw anybody place a magazine with a householder. So all those assemblies and conventions (or should I say sales meetings!) that interviewed people who placed dozens of magazines and literature always mystified me.

  I used to wonder at the lack of urgentness and spirituality of my brothers and sisters in field service.... it seems like so much time was WASTED! Why the long coffee breaks? (I brought my snack and drink along with me!) Why walk so slowly to the doors?? Why drive round and round in circles when we should be OUT THERE witnessing to people who could DIE at any moment!! Armageddon was coming!! Their blood would be on our hands!!

  All the preparation, all the paraphernalia, all the changing literature, all the tracts/brochures/booklets/magazines.... you'd just get one presentation worked out and accustomed to it and it would change all over again. This was frustrating. Placing different books all the time was frustrating. Trying to keep track of service time... and YES, of course I was one of those honest-earnest people who reported their EXACT time, beginning with the first knock on the door. (When I first started, I wouldn't even count this time UNTIL someone actually answered the door!) It took a lot of work for me to count even the minimum of hours.
  
  So it wears you down. And at the meetings, you're told to do more! More!! What's wrong with YOU?? MORE!!!! MORE, MORE, MORE!!!!

  Field Service became drugery... I began to dread it. Even packing a service bag was tiresome. The field service groups were horrid. And I'd get terribly car-sick at times. Oh, gawd, it could be quite awful. Come home and feel like you've wasted a whole morning.

  I am SO GLAD all that is O-VER!!
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  29

  How the Governing Body Solved Another Problem

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  that interpretation had caused a problem that the governing body was never able to satisfactorily explain.

  they needed to be able to show that there has always been a functioning faithful and discreet slave in one form or another ever since.

  but they were never able to provide any evidence for the existence of an ongoing 1900 year-old slave prior to the appearance of the watchtower society.

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  Muddy Waters

  Excellent points in this thread, love it. Yet the reaction of most JWs is that this new understanding of the FDS/GB makes perfect sense!!